1. Beautiful Day is great! One of my all time favourite songs by anyone, not just U2.


  2. This is exactly my issue with I+e in paris.

    now, please bear in mind I did not get to any of the shows in person, so this will be my only way of experiencing the i+e tour live.

    I have to skip at least 4 songs because visually, I find them absolutely infuriating. What was the editor thinking?

    now bear in mind, when I watch a U2 live product, I do so to see the band. Not other bands or people on stage or instagram shout outs (sorry to EODM - but you have no place being in U2 product).

    i) EBTTRT - we can see close up shots of the band on pretty much every other concert DVD and song. But in EBTTRT then playing from inside the screen, thematically, works. To break theat wall of seperation by showing the band playing in full close up totally ruins the entire point of the song, its presentation and performance. it is not just distracting and jarring, but not representative of what the audience would ever see. it is a completely artificial choice of edits. And utterly ruins the effect of the animations based upon the live footage.

    ii)Elevation.
    There's 100 people on stage. And only 4 people in the band. Which means you can't see what is happening. And really - what is more important to YOU, the u2 fan? Is the performance? or an endless stream of intrusaive, pointless instagram shout outs for people backslapping themselves endlessly? If I wanted to see a succession of internet notifications, I'd watch my children play on their ipads, not a u2 concert. Get that intrusive, irrelevant, pointless stuff out of the concert, out of the DVD. it adds nothing and activitly detracts.

    iii)EODM songs. Yes, Yes - I know its all about the paris attacks etc. But its not a U2 performance, and I have no interest ot see a band don't like piggyback onto a U2 concert for their own self aggrandisement. It is crass, and self-serving.

    iv)The endless crowd shots of people from on stage there. Mirror ball man has got a fantastic outfit - but is he the guy singing "one" from thge stage? No.

    v)COBL - If I wanted to watch some random bloke singing u2 songs on my telly, I'd go on youtube. if I want to watch u2, i watch u2. GET OFF THE STAGE. It said U2 on the ticket not "Random bloke with tattooed sleeve singing along like in his bedroom".

    vi) instagram feeds in Elevation . Cripes on a showboat - I'm hankering for a HD version of the broadcast and other nights just to find it watchable. All these notifications and so forth make me feel like stressed and overwhelmed. all these "wow-cool! (emoticon) - katye798977792" inserts add ZERO to the performance, the band, or to the viewer at home. meaningless backslapping from nobodies. They aren't u2. get off the stage

    vii)The opening 1minute 46seconds - yes, I know terrorist attacks are a bad thing. Am i really stupid enough to have to have it sledgehammered into me? No. But the false, forced, emotionally manipulative gravitas of this is neither earned, nor warranted, nor in fitting with the rest of the show. I mean, if they had done a branching version to choose to omit this, it would have been far superior. A version to swap out the EODM tracks for the Patti Smith tracks (which are much more authentically U2 than the others), would have been ideal. But as it happens - the chapter break doesn't even come at the title screen, buit athe moment he starts signing in Miracle.

    viii)Not including "Out of control" + Electric co reintegrated into the main body of the show . They could easily removed the repetitive speeches by bono via removing the audio channel for his mic during these portions.

    positives ;
    - The direction by Hamish really captures the full enormity of the show

    negatives
    - an emotionally manipulative crass introduction to the concert
    - Terrible choice of shots used in the release edit for EBTTRT and Elevation
    - No branching option to remove the extraneous non-U2 material by EODM

    In short - amazing pic quality, top notce audio, fantastic show. Terrible editing choices that lessen the final product. A re-edit to focus on the band, and away from the extraneous non-band related material would vastly improved it.

    And remove the instagram pop up notifications in elevation - the SINGLE most annoying thing I have ever, EVER seen in any concert Dvd I've ever seen.

    Does anyone else remember the outrage when reports came back from boston 2001 that the band made sure only pretty girls got to the front row for the concert filming? I tell you this - compared to paris 2015, that is nothing compared to the actual genuine editorial damage done by the post-production editor - Tim Qualtrough - is not merely incompetent, but should bar him from ever working as a editor again. Without doubt, the worst edited concert DVD i have ever EVER seen. (Yes, and I am including 360 at the rose bowl in this!). The choices such as instagram feed, the inside screen footage in EBTTR - they actively damage the experience. for the viewer.

    nb: Uncensored opinion there. I didn't post this with the intention or consideration to not hurting people's feelings - this is 100% genuinely how i feel.
  3. Originally posted by GrahamReed:[..]


    This is exactly my issue with I+e in paris.

    now, please bear in mind I did not get to any of the shows in person, so this will be my only way of experiencing the i+e tour live.

    I have to skip at least 4 songs because visually, I find them absolutely infuriating. What was the editor thinking?

    now bear in mind, when I watch a U2 live product, I do so to see the band. Not other bands or people on stage or instagram shout outs (sorry to EODM - but you have no place being in U2 product).

    i) EBTTRT - we can see close up shots of the band on pretty much every other concert DVD and song. But in EBTTRT then playing from inside the screen, thematically, works. To break theat wall of seperation by showing the band playing in full close up totally ruins the entire point of the song, its presentation and performance. it is not just distracting and jarring, but not representative of what the audience would ever see. it is a completely artificial choice of edits. And utterly ruins the effect of the animations based upon the live footage.

    ii)Elevation.
    There's 100 people on stage. And only 4 people in the band. Which means you can't see what is happening. And really - what is more important to YOU, the u2 fan? Is the performance? or an endless stream of intrusaive, pointless instagram shout outs for people backslapping themselves endlessly? If I wanted to see a succession of internet notifications, I'd watch my children play on their ipads, not a u2 concert. Get that intrusive, irrelevant, pointless stuff out of the concert, out of the DVD. it adds nothing and activitly detracts.

    iii)EODM songs. Yes, Yes - I know its all about the paris attacks etc. But its not a U2 performance, and I have no interest ot see a band don't like piggyback onto a U2 concert for their own self aggrandisement. It is crass, and self-serving.

    iv)The endless crowd shots of people from on stage there. Mirror ball man has got a fantastic outfit - but is he the guy singing "one" from thge stage? No.

    v)COBL - If I wanted to watch some random bloke singing u2 songs on my telly, I'd go on youtube. if I want to watch u2, i watch u2. GET OFF THE STAGE. It said U2 on the ticket not "Random bloke with tattooed sleeve singing along like in his bedroom".

    vi) instagram feeds in Elevation . Cripes on a showboat - I'm hankering for a HD version of the broadcast and other nights just to find it watchable. All these notifications and so forth make me feel like stressed and overwhelmed. all these "wow-cool! (emoticon) - katye798977792" inserts add ZERO to the performance, the band, or to the viewer at home. meaningless backslapping from nobodies. They aren't u2. get off the stage

    vii)The opening 1minute 46seconds - yes, I know terrorist attacks are a bad thing. Am i really stupid enough to have to have it sledgehammered into me? No. But the false, forced, emotionally manipulative gravitas of this is neither earned, nor warranted, nor in fitting with the rest of the show. I mean, if they had done a branching version to choose to omit this, it would have been far superior. A version to swap out the EODM tracks for the Patti Smith tracks (which are much more authentically U2 than the others), would have been ideal. But as it happens - the chapter break doesn't even come at the title screen, buit athe moment he starts signing in Miracle.

    viii)Not including "Out of control" + Electric co reintegrated into the main body of the show . They could easily removed the repetitive speeches by bono via removing the audio channel for his mic during these portions.

    positives ;
    - The direction by Hamish really captures the full enormity of the show

    negatives
    - an emotionally manipulative crass introduction to the concert
    - Terrible choice of shots used in the release edit for EBTTRT and Elevation
    - No branching option to remove the extraneous non-U2 material by EODM

    In short - amazing pic quality, top notce audio, fantastic show. Terrible editing choices that lessen the final product. A re-edit to focus on the band, and away from the extraneous non-band related material would vastly improved it.

    And remove the instagram pop up notifications in elevation - the SINGLE most annoying thing I have ever, EVER seen in any concert Dvd I've ever seen.

    Does anyone else remember the outrage when reports came back from boston 2001 that the band made sure only pretty girls got to the front row for the concert filming? I tell you this - compared to paris 2015, that is nothing compared to the actual genuine editorial damage done by the post-production editor - Tim Qualtrough - is not merely incompetent, but should bar him from ever working as a editor again. Without doubt, the worst edited concert DVD i have ever EVER seen. (Yes, and I am including 360 at the rose bowl in this!). The choices such as instagram feed, the inside screen footage in EBTTR - they actively damage the experience. for the viewer.

    nb: Uncensored opinion there. I didn't post this with the intention or consideration to not hurting people's feelings - this is 100% genuinely how i feel.
    Jesus Christ... are you a robot? You know the nice thing about a DVD or Blu-ray is you can just hit the skip button instead of complaining about what their artistic vision is. Most of the things you hate are based on emotive visuals and ideas .. so how often are you rewired?
  4. Originally posted by justinpushplay:[..]
    Jesus Christ... are you a robot? You know the nice thing about a DVD or Blu-ray is you can just hit the skip button instead of complaining about what their artistic vision is. Most of the things you hate are based on emotive visuals and ideas .. so how often are you rewired?


    No, not a robot. (I might post my u2 collection later, its not exactly tiny - the first u2 record I bought was Desire on 7'' in 1988).

    To me the artistic vision is about the music - the emotive visuals and ideas ? I "get" that. I also think the visual aspect of the show - see the films in cedarwood road / song for someone - really *DO* make the i&e show. However, the 100 people on stage / instagram feeds are neither cohesive to the show or thematics. it is just about people going "Woot! Look at me!!" (followed by their social media link) at that detracts from the band and the show. Are we watching a U2 concert, or an attempt to get online followers here????! And I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that an endless stream of notifications demanding attention stressful and intrusive.

    But I also feel like it the editing choices - ie the 1m50s introduction for example - are cynically manipulative button pushing.. That would have made a one watch bonus feature, or possibly a "play with optional introduction" option.

    Whilst I am a huge fan, i also hold to band to certain standards of quality control. Just because U2 do something doesn't mean everything is brilliant, and beyond criticism. Personally, i think i+e Paris fell short in that way. Some of it is stunning - the camera work such as the shot when Bono holds out his hand on the video screen and it holds the edge in his palm for example - but in other ways, i felt it made a great many missteps.
  5. Originally posted by GrahamReed:[..]


    No, not a robot. (I might post my u2 collection later, its not exactly tiny - the first u2 record I bought was Desire on 7'' in 1988).

    To me the artistic vision is about the music - the emotive visuals and ideas ? I "get" that. I also think the visual aspect of the show - see the films in cedarwood road / song for someone - really *DO* make the i&e show. However, the 100 people on stage / instagram feeds are neither cohesive to the show or thematics. it is just about people going "Woot! Look at me!!" (followed by their social media link) at that detracts from the band and the show. Are we watching a U2 concert, or an attempt to get online followers here????! And I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that an endless stream of notifications demanding attention stressful and intrusive.

    But I also feel like it the editing choices - ie the 1m50s introduction for example - are cynically manipulative button pushing.. That would have made a one watch bonus feature, or possibly a "play with optional introduction" option.

    Whilst I am a huge fan, i also hold to band to certain standards of quality control. Just because U2 do something doesn't mean everything is brilliant, and beyond criticism. Personally, i think i+e Paris fell short in that way. Some of it is stunning - the camera work such as the shot when Bono holds out his hand on the video screen and it holds the edge in his palm for example - but in other ways, i felt it made a great many missteps.
    What you're not grasping is that this was more than just a concert, it was a celebration of return to life for a city that has been through hell. The opening gives me chills every time I see it because it's preparing you for an experience, not just a concert. And a u2 concert is more than just "a concert". To belittle the importance of the show at that time in that city is to wipe all context. And there are about 10'people onstage, and the "notifications" you're speaking of we're broadcast on the screen at every show during that point of the night. So if your complaint about EBTTRT is that it's not letting the viewer have the same experience as a concert goer then your problem with the scrolling text is unfounded, because it was absotleku part of the show for everyone in attendance
  6. Originally posted by justinpushplay:[..]
    What you're not grasping is that this was more than just a concert, it was a celebration of return to life for a city that has been through hell. The opening gives me chills every time I see it because it's preparing you for an experience, not just a concert. And a u2 concert is more than just "a concert". To belittle the importance of the show at that time in that city is to wipe all context. And there are about 10'people onstage, and the "notifications" you're speaking of we're broadcast on the screen at every show during that point of the night. So if your complaint about EBTTRT is that it's not letting the viewer have the same experience as a concert goer then your problem with the scrolling text is unfounded, because it was absotleku part of the show for everyone in attendance
    +1
    To me the first part of the show really is "the show". A world performance by an excellent band that tells an intense story.
    The whole thing about the Invisible/Even Better combo is some kind of rebirth. Breaking through all the sadness and sorrow in the world. Enjoying life again. Sure, it's even more symbolic, that night in Paris, but for the whole tour you could kinda feel a change in gear, a change in emotion as soon as they entered the i+e stage. From that moment on, the whole crow gets integrated. Gets to MAKE the show, WITH the band. See the girls filming on stage, see the times people played songs on guitar with them, yes even the instagram live feeds. Now, I guess Graham's anger might have to do with the fact he hasn't witnessed a show and isn't really aware of the feeling that goes through the arena during that part of the show.
  7. "Now, I guess Graham's anger might have to do with the fact he hasn't witnessed a show and isn't really aware of the feeling that goes through the arena during that part of the show."

    Absolutely untrue. I have zero anger at missing the show and to claim my criticisms come from jealousy are your own projections onto me. Please keep that cod psychology out of it.

    It comes from a visual perspective - as it clutters up the image with unneccessary, extraneous information. From a graphic design point of view it is exceptionally ugly.
    It is about the aesthetics of visual presentation of a performance.

    To me - the stream of constant notifications and so forth is actually about something else - I feel it detracts from the performance of the band. Why? Because the CONSTANT BARRAGE OF INFORMATION OVERLOAD CONSTANT NOTIFICATIONS RESPOND TO THIS I AM IMPORTANT THIS IS ABOUT ME WOW COOL ETC ETC

    Yes, I wrote that in caps lock to show exactly how that feels to me. A Constant barrage of attention seeking self-glorification that has zero to do the name of "u2" and everything to dow ith social networking, self-aggrandisement. Whilst the information overload of say "The Fly" or Zoo TV was in a context of making a statement, a stream of banal and inane instagram comments such as "wow!" "So cool" has zero artistic content or statement to make.

    Instead it clutters up the visual data of the band with endless, meaningless noise.

    You might not agree with my point, but can you at least understand it? I really don't relish the thought of this only permanent official visual record of this tour being essentially, subject to textual graffitti like this. And a lot of people find the constant stream of such far too much to process ,in any meaningful context. Your brain is trying to process all the data of equal value, only for 99% of it is to be pointless, banal, chaff that adds zero content.

    Now - I have NO problem (I need to repeat this) ZERO problem with it being part of the show. I feel that in the editing process, the home experience should have been taken into account as being different to the concert experience. What comes across as instant, immediate inclusive within the arena, is - when viewed from your sofa - instead exclusionary and alienating.

    Hence my criticism not of the show itself, but of its editing for home release.

    (NB: Not seen any other shows as multicams or the other nights, hence why I am limiting my comments to paris official)
  8. Originally posted by justinpushplay:[..]
    What you're not grasping is that this was more than just a concert, it was a celebration of return to life for a city that has been through hell. The opening gives me chills every time I see it because it's preparing you for an experience, not just a concert. And a u2 concert is more than just "a concert". To belittle the importance of the show at that time in that city is to wipe all context. And there are about 10'people onstage, and the "notifications" you're speaking of we're broadcast on the screen at every show during that point of the night. So if your complaint about EBTTRT is that it's not letting the viewer have the same experience as a concert goer then your problem with the scrolling text is unfounded, because it was absotleku part of the show for everyone in attendance


    Contentious Point of View ; The Paris show is now immortalised for all time as i+e Paris. It is now no longer a singular, spontaneous moment in time. it is a permanent record. That moment in time is now history, and gone forever.

    The line "A City that has been through hell" I must bring you up on. I'm not debating or pretending it didn't. I too have experience of these things. The city where I was born and still live was attacked by terrorists in 1974, with multiple explosions and over 20 people killed. I remember spending most of my youth wondering if I was going to get blown up in terrorist attacks. Family members were in the Admiral Duncan, drinking at that bar, the week before it was attacked with a nailbomb in 1999. I was in London days before the travelling on the same tubes that got blown up in 2005 the day before it happened. So don't tell me that somehow, this is the exception. To me, terrorism is an a rare, but not an exceptional event - it is a fact of life. Thus I have normalised it. To me I go out and carry on as normal - and I am used to it. I've had people set themselves on fire outside my work place, and still walked in through the front door the next day.

    The opening to me is just a big spot of misery tourism. Of again, self congratualtion at doing what you do everyday. it reeks of "Survivor Privilege" runs through it - oh, poor us, we wear our hurt like a crown. I on the other hand, do not wear that hurt like a crown. I carry no such privilege, despite all my experiences of terrorism and attacks. (For an entirely different way of handling this in media, there is a fascinating segment in the Al Gore "An Inconvienient sequel" release, that covers it from the perspective of being in Paris, and on live TV - as the attacks unfolded.) The opening 2minutes or so strikes me as mawkish, and sensationalist.

    Forgive me if my experience and reaction to this is different to yours. I know nothing of you, but I know how I have reacted and dealt with such traumatic events.And slapping myself on the back and saying "Aren't we brave?" isn't it.

    With the passage of time, there is no context. I ask you - can you think of another event around the time of a big terrorist attack, a music concert now on DVD? I can.

    Live 8. It took place 5 days before the London bombings that killed 50+ people. And To somehow then place that in the context of the London Bombings is absurd.

    My point there is something else - the context now, is that the Paris attack was an entirely separate, and individual event, to that of the U2 filming. Now the U2 Paris release stands as its own individual, entirely separate entity - it exists in its own right, seperate to the EODM gig and the attacks. (There is a seperate documentary about Bataclan being made, I gather).

    What works on stage on a night, does not always translate to the home medium - especially in such emotive circumstances on a night such as that. My criticism about the elevation notifications is about visual clarity of the image, whereas about EBTTRT is also about visual clarity. the imagery on the screens with live footage morphed in animations is something I have never seen before - and doubt any band will ever do again. In that case, the camera shots from about a foot away from a band members face do not gel visually or thematically with the animations. if anything, these shows are close to the Bonocam versions of tracks from Boston 01 - they should be alternate angles or bonus features. Rather than an editing style of widescreen stylisied image with animation SMASHCUT into an impossible camera angle no human being could ever actually see because their face would be in the middle of the video wall etc.

    I feel i am being exceptionally critical here, of the editing of the show in elevation / EBTTTRT and the intro are terrible IMHO. They are jarring, in terms of tone and visual imagery, and with zero visual coherency. A lot of the earlier tracks - ie song for someone, the cedarwood - sunday - raised sequence - are done perfectly, but those three tracks are terrible. Quite frankly, I'd rather watch the the earlier november shows that were filmed, completed finalised and sitting in the can somewhere. And why? because they don't have a subtext of "post-bataclan" or any of that to do with them. They would be a representation of the shows without the shoehorned in subtext. IMHO.

    Again, not wishing to be contentious (though I know many will agree) but trying to explain my POV. For reasons of my own, the first time I ever heard SOI was this summer, not three years ago.And thus, the first time I ever watched I+e Paris was again a few weeks ago. I understand other people have a different perspective because they watched it as broadcast , but even less than 2 years down the line, it does not work for me and has dated.

    on a side note - to put in the "paris survived" kind of subtext is also incongrous to me because it muddies the waters - is it a record of the tour, or a documentary about the paris attacks? I would argue it does not successfully as either.
  9. The band's intent matters more than any of our "wants". And as to why you'd have a problem with them bringing eagles onstage at the end is beyond me. You call it self serving when its u2's idea of how they wanted the evening to end. If it's such a problem just hit the stop button after One. You make it sound like we deserve to have things be a certain way, we deserve nothing, be greatful
  10. "to claim my criticisms come from jealousy are your own projections onto me"

    Graham, I do understand your point, but we just disagree about what a live DVD should be all about.

    As you've explained in detail, you want a beautiful, polished kind of artwork that highlights all the qualities of the band. Something astonishing to watch and listen to.

    To me (and I guess most fans), a LIVE dvd should be about capturing the spirit of that evening (or tour). Why? Because a U2 concert isn't some fancy artwork. It's an experience. I want to be touched. Feel happy. Energetic. Sad. Excited. Angry. All of that. So yes, all the livefeed is part of that too. It was part of that evening. That tour. It's part of modern life, really.
    If I want some near-perfect artwork I'll go to a museum