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  1. Originally posted by robotsandmonkeys:[..]


    Wow - I strongly recommend people read this article - it really crystalizes the effect POP had and still has on the band.

    Right now the 20 year old POP is in the EXACT middle of their 40 year career - from 1977-1997 they released 10 albums (if you count Rattle and Hum and Passengers...which I do)...in the 20 years after POP they have released four albums. And pretty much each one came with a public identity crisis issued from the band.

    If only they knew that this album that still seems to haunt them is as loved as it is...I wish they just re-embrace this album and exorcise this 20 year old demon of theirs...exorcise this overly cautious, safe, nail biting psyche the band has been lugging around after 97, and bring back the experimental, brave, and confident 4 lads we knew once upon a time...
    But, even if they exorcise the 20 year old demon, they will still be 20 years older than they were in 1997. If nothing else, age is going to cause them to be a bit more cautious and introspective.
  2. Originally posted by pontneuf:[..]
    But, even if they exorcise the 20 year old demon, they will still be 20 years older than they were in 1997. If nothing else, age is going to cause them to be a bit more cautious and introspective.


    I totally agree - but I think David Bowie is a great example of how age can bring a fearlessness and confidence back to an artist to allow them to forget "relevance" and do what they want to do.

    Bowie would never make another Low...but he DID make Blackstar - an album that was both fearless and fitting for his age (69). And that was a gem after a string of fantastic albums in his twilight years (Heathen, The Next Day).

    Bowie wasn't kidding himself and trying to make Let's Dance in his 60s...honestly I think U2 are trying to make another Let's Dance...searching a sound to connect to people a third of their age. And that gets pretty embarrassing.

    But what Bowie and U2 have in common (other than Brian Eno) is that they are really SMART...so while I expect most musicians 40 years into their career to rest on their laurels and phone in their work...I expect more from U2. I expect them to age in a way that they gain confidence that they should make the music they want to make and know that if it's interesting, a large fanbase will check it out.

    The last two albums (NLOTH and SOI) sound made by committee...you can practically hear them biting their nails. And if memory serves me right, from Atomic Bomb onward they touted their newest album as genius, only to criticize it in retrospect.

    I think you're right that if they return to this spirit they would never make another Achtung Baby...but I COULD imagine them making another Passengers (insert "not while Larry is in the band" comment here). It's THAT kind of experimental, bold mindset I hope they age into and reconnect with.

    It's that or they will re-apply for "biggest band of the world" every 5 years and warn that if they don't get kids these days to like their music, they might just take their toys and go home.
  3. they touted their newest album as genius, only to criticize it in retrospect.

    This is not a bad thing. It makes them realize that they still haven't made their best. That's what they need to keep striving for. And I think the records have elements of genius. I just think they let sales figures and music critics get into their heads and give them second thoughts...

    And BTW - While Blackstar is as brilliant as it is fearless and fitting, I also think Bowie knew it would be his last curtain call, so it's hard to compare to previous bodies of work. It's transcendental as much for the fact that Bowie was making it his last goodbye statement as it was for being innovative and fresh...
  5. Or 4 people. Just a producer, the whole of ATYCLB sounds like a decent, ''create your own music'', middle of the road album. But hey, at leasts people liked Beautiful Day and the work of genius that is Elevation.



    Ahhhw, I love Pop
  6. As one would expect from my user name, Pop is in my top 3, at number 3, but since my # 1 AB, and #2 JT are at the level of over analysis, Pop is the one I most like to talk about. Getting another innovative album from anybody over 45 is a tough task. Even 40 can be that age where artists become too conservative for their own good. And the rest of this will be in the SOE thread, as my ideas probably better fit there.
  7. Honestly, I don't think they'll never come up with another experimental - or at least more similiar to their 90s works - album because I suppose that they're the first ones that unbelieve it. They are going to be the next Stones - another band that made its last great album in 1971 but still on the road for the next 46 years - a big act that will always fit stadiums and arenas and that will always sell records, and this is the main goal of the band right now: keep making money, not losing it. And this because Pop and PopMart.
    I love that album with all myself and I will always stand in front for it. But its flop made them less opened to experimentation and more keen to commercial tastes.
    May I make another example? No Line On The Horizon. I listened to it a week ago and men, that's a little masterpiece compared with the other stuff from 2000 to date. But it'll going to be the same as Pop because it's too uncommercial. And the band itself denied all over its supporting tour.
    We have to accept it, keep listening to Pop and suggesting it to the others.
  8. Originally posted by Bullet_Blue:Honestly, I don't think they'll never come up with another experimental - or at least more similiar to their 90s works - album because I suppose that they're the first ones that unbelieve it. They are going to be the next Stones - another band that made its last great album in 1971 but still on the road for the next 46 years - a big act that will always fit stadiums and arenas and that will always sell records, and this is the main goal of the band right now: keep making money, not losing it. And this because Pop and PopMart.
    I love that album with all myself and I will always stand in front for it. But its flop made them less opened to experimentation and more keen to commercial tastes.
    May I make another example? No Line On The Horizon. I listened to it a week ago and men, that's a little masterpiece compared with the other stuff from 2000 to date. But it'll going to be the same as Pop because it's too uncommercial. And the band itself denied all over its supporting tour.
    We have to accept it, keep listening to Pop and suggesting it to the others.


    I'd argue that while it's a bit more... "experimental" than its surrounding albums, the core songwriting just isn't good. Pop had songs that were incredibly well written and vulnerable, they were just wrapped in some crazy sounds. NLOTH has some not-nearly-as-crazy sounds with some not-nearly-as-great songwriting, and I think that's sort of what they realized after. It wasn't that people didn't go along for the ride like with Pop, it's that there wasn't much to latch onto to begin with. Compare songs like Mofo, Please and Last Night on Earth with songs like Magnificent, Unknown Caller and Crazy Tonight. Yeah.......

    I get what you're saying, I just don't like seeing NLOTH compared to Pop I'd also say that at least Pop HAD such an effect on their career, NLOTH is basically just forgettable. They don't play Pop songs because they're afraid of them. They don't play NLOTH songs because no one in the audience or band really think those songs stand up to the rest of their work.
  9. Originally posted by RattleandHum1988:[..]


    I'd argue that while it's a bit more... "experimental" than its surrounding albums, the core songwriting just isn't good. Pop had songs that were incredibly well written and vulnerable, they were just wrapped in some crazy sounds. NLOTH has some not-nearly-as-crazy sounds with some not-nearly-as-great songwriting, and I think that's sort of what they realized after. It wasn't that people didn't go along for the ride like with Pop, it's that there wasn't much to latch onto to begin with. Compare songs like Mofo, Please and Last Night on Earth with songs like Magnificent, Unknown Caller and Crazy Tonight. Yeah.......

    I get what you're saying, I just don't like seeing NLOTH compared to Pop I'd also say that at least Pop HAD such an effect on their career, NLOTH is basically just forgettable. They don't play Pop songs because they're afraid of them. They don't play NLOTH songs because no one in the audience or band really think those songs stand up to the rest of their work.
    I don't think NLOTH is forgettable when you have ATYCLB, HTDAAB and SOI but nevermind, that's another story and thread.
  10. I mean, like I said, NLOTH has some minimal experimentation when you compare it to those albums, but the songwriting just doesn't compare. Beautiful Day, Stuck in a Moment, Walk On, City of Blinding Lights, etc. etc. - despite them being pretty vanilla sonically, they're also just well written pop/rock songs. Compare NLOTH to Passengers. Passengers doesn't have stellar songwriting in terms of hooks, structure, etc. - but it's an interesting listen just because of the sonic experimentation. To me, NLOTH tried to ride the middle of that road but wasn't successful either way. it didn't have a "Beautiful Day", nor did it have a "Slug", you know? It wasn't really pleasing to the ear or mind, in my opinion.

    Fez - Being Born is the only exception for me, that's a pretty fucking fantastic song.

    EDIT: To bring this back to Pop - Pop had both, it just was unfinished and a little too far down the rabbit hole for the tastes of many. I've said it before and I'll say it again though, I think if they had had another month or two it could've been one of their best albums, easily. Just listen to the "new mix"es.


  11. Totally agreed
    (sorry to continue taking us off topic)
  12. Also agree with the songwriting critiques on NLOTH...though I'd carry those critiques to ATYCLB, HTDAAB, and SOI as well...at least NLOTH had MOMENTS of surprise. Fez / Being Born the strongest example in my opinion.
    (crap - still of topic - sorry)

    anyway...POP!