1. Originally posted by vetri:And if the tapers think they have U2's permission to record, they are sadly mistaken. I myself saw and witnessed the U2 crew, here at the shows in São Paulo, confiscating Nuno Moreira's equipment, because he was recording.

    If it was ok for the tapers to record, the would never had done this.

    In other words, as I always said: if you didn't have the band's permission to record, you don't have the moral to complain about anything about bootlegs.


    You should have turned your camera phone and recorded him getting busted. Would have made for interesting watch.

    Releasing stuff out into the wild for free is a risk. You can put basic requests, such as don't sell or ask for permission before using in projects, and it's basically on the honor system. You're counting on people not being jerks and honoring some basic requests as part of receiving free product of hard work.

    And of course, some people will be jerks regardless. Many of my free recordings have been bootlegged and sold. Many of my free recordings have been butchered with bad remastering. And many of my free recordings have been used for poor video releases without permission.

    Just part of the game and risk you accept for releasing stuff freely.

    But you can still call someone a jerk for acting like a jerk. See this thread.
  2. I'm sure you're eager to contribute to Vetri's project then. Go right ahead, nobody is stopping you.
  3. U2 didn’t ask their fans not to share recordings. I know the whole thing about security or management not letting it happen but at no point did any u2 band member say don’t share our shows that you’ve recorded. Just because it belongs to the band from a legal point of view has nothing to do with the etiquette of sharing recordings. Obviously if a taper went to court because someone used their audio well they’d probably end up more likely having to pay the band than getting anything themselves but we’re talking about fans respecting wishes when we’re benefiting from it, what don’t you get from that. You’re quite happy to listen and enjoy these tapers recordings but you can’t follow a simple request, totally ungrateful. Fans like you don’t deserve to hear these recordings with your attitude.
  4. Originally posted by deanallison:[..]
    U2 didn’t ask their fans not to share recordings. I know the whole thing about security or management not letting it happen but at no point did any u2 band member say don’t share our shows that you’ve recorded. Just because it belongs to the band from a legal point of view has nothing to do with the etiquette of sharing recordings. Obviously if a taper went to court because someone used their audio well they’d probably end up more likely having to pay the band than getting anything themselves but we’re talking about fans respecting wishes when we’re benefiting from it, what don’t you get from that. You’re quite happy to listen and enjoy these tapers recordings but you can’t follow a simple request, totally ungrateful. Fans like you don’t deserve to hear these recordings with your attitude.
    I completely agree Dean, not sure why they can't respect a simple request from one of the greatest tapers out there. I personally think U2 should seek out Hoserama to hire him instead of some of the personnel they've had in the past.
  5. I love it, so the one who didn't respect tapers' requests, takes from whatever source he wants, etc, jumps the shark and says that ultimately its U2's content. That settles it, the Afhtutngg Baby stuff should be taken down then. It's the only honorable thing to do🤣🤣
  6. Vetri, hoserama:

    The hoserama information texts say that you should ask him for permission whether you can use what he has recorded on his audio. I rightly claim or it is so, hoserama has the best recordings. He invests a lot of time to enable simple U2 fans to do what we never hear from U2. He's the producer. I would not call it illegal, so anyone who has a cell phone can only record audio and make themselves liable to prosecution. That is a very sensitive subject. There was also something on the radio once, a music group, I don't remember the name, sued YouTube because of the multicam recordings that were then uploaded. I don't remember how that ended. If Vetri, the recordings of hoserama or someone else steals from YouTube or here, he must be able to show a usage right. Neither Vetri nor hoserama are the originators of the music played, which is why we stamp it under bootlegs. Back to the beginnings.
  7. as we all understand - people are always going to 'steal' and not always for malicious reasons either, some for sheer enthusiasm and others to make other fans happy

    BUT hoserama makes the most valid point here that i think a lot of you are missing

    if tapers get 'abused' then they won't share and this website is all about the sharing

    yes, some tapers don't care as much and others may care more so, but if the end result is people not sharing then we all lose out

    tapers don't think they own U2's music so stop with that shit - they're recording it for either private or public use - and the good guys are doing that for free

    you don't see tapers riding around in fucking ferraris, but on a more honest level you also don't see them buying expensive gear and hoping they don't get pulled or found out and then after all that they could be sitting/standing right next to some excited fan affecting their recording AND they've got to keep still and quiet during the show also

    okay no one is forcing them to do that as it's their own choice BUT they want to share - they want to show off their craft as do U fucking 2

    there's a simple answer to all this - ask permission (is it really that hard to do?)

    and to all the people posting 'ha ha they're stealing from U2' just remember that 99.99999999999999% of bootlegs in your own collection have been recorded by someone else NOT YOU
  8. Originally posted by TheRealEdge:as we all understand - people are always going to 'steal' and not always for malicious reasons either, some for sheer enthusiasm and others to make other fans happy

    BUT hoserama makes the most valid point here that i think a lot of you are missing

    if tapers get 'abused' then they won't share and this website is all about the sharing

    yes, some tapers don't care as much and others may care more so, but if the end result is people not sharing then we all lose out

    tapers don't think they own U2's music so stop with that shit - they're recording it for either private or public use - and the good guys are doing that for free

    you don't see tapers riding around in fucking ferraris, but on a more honest level you also don't see them buying expensive gear and hoping they don't get pulled or found out and then after all that they could be sitting/standing right next to some excited fan affecting their recording AND they've got to keep still and quiet during the show also

    okay no one is forcing them to do that as it's their own choice BUT they want to share - they want to show off their craft as do U fucking 2

    there's a simple answer to all this - ask permission (is it really that hard to do?)

    and to all the people posting 'ha ha they're stealing from U2' just remember that 99.99999999999999% of bootlegs in your own collection have been recorded by someone else NOT YOU
    It might sound all nice and generous with them sharing music for the fans blah blah blah but in the end what they are doing is illegal and try using your argument in court and see how far it gets you ,GnR have pursued bootleggers who have shared live audio and studio recordings as have many other artists such as Metallica and Prince ,the band might turn a blind eye and say they've no problem with it but it's the management and record company who are the ones who do.
  9. A debate as old as time itself. At the end of the day the onus should be on those who wish to use a recording to drop the taper a message.

    Not all tapers are the ego maniacs we might think they are. Even if they were, is it really that difficult to send an email to see if they are cool with the use of their recording for whichever project you are working on?

    Best case scenario is that the taper appreciates their wishes being respected and is happy to see their recording used. Worst case scenario is they say no thanks but the chances are that if you weren’t going to ask permission in the first instance then being told no isn’t going to stop you.

    Just ask.
  10. Originally posted by popmarter:[..]
    It might sound all nice and generous with them sharing music for the fans blah blah blah but in the end what they are doing is illegal and try using your argument in court and see how far it gets you ,GnR have pursued bootleggers who have shared live audio and studio recordings as have many other artists such as Metallica and Prince ,the band might turn a blind eye and say they've no problem with it but it's the management and record company who are the ones who do.


    I don't agree with your argument, but I can understand it. Taping/recording, collecting of unofficial live audio, certainly runs in the grey area. So maybe it should be every man for themselves, and completely unreasonable to put any some of requests of stipulations. Sure, you can go that route.

    However, there are natural consequences. For example, in 2005 Vertigo tour, many recordings were downloaded off the torrents, burned on CDR, and tossed up on ebay. Rampant selling. If you notice, there is significantly better coverage of the first and second leg shows in regards to released recordings. However, the 3rd leg has a bunch of shows with no released audio, or just one recording. A lot of tapers held back their recordings due to all the selling. And many of the tapers just floated away into hibernation or other life responsibilities, so it's doubtful those recordings sitting in the closet will ever reach the general fanbase circulation. However, it goes to show consequences if you burn tapers on basic requests like "Don't Sell".

    Alternatively, I think a community based approach is better. Be respectful of tapers, honor basic requests, and things will be better in the long run. You don't have to bend over backwards--if a taper is being an asshole or lording their recordings over people, feel free to call that out. But I think basic requests like "don't sell" or "ask permission before remastering" are pretty easy to respect.

    Tapers aren't stupid. They know that when you release something into the wild, there will be jerks out there who will ignore it. Ultimately it's up to them if they want to continue releasing recordings. I released a full mix of Sao Paulo #4 2017, which Vetri/Romulo/U2Brazil stole and butchered for their bastard of a video project. This irritated me, and stopped any plans of future releases from that run. I even talked another taper out of releasing their audience recordings. Petty? Sure, I'll admit that. But natural consequences of bad behavior. I may eventually pull the trigger but we'll see where the motivation lands.

    At the very least, I feel justified in calling somebody engaging in jerk behavior a jerk. And Vetri has consistently engaged in that behavior over the years, despite being called out on it. He simply doesn't care to get permission and wants to do whatever he can with the audio. I just wish his end result had a higher quality--many of his projects are sourced from bad YT video, alignment issues, framerate issues, color correction is non-existent, etc. But some folks are happy with them I guess.

    It's funny. This project is a bit different, if only because he's seeking video from other folks. So a lot of my usual issues with him are moot with the AB tribute video. However, I'll still make the caveat emptor statement when dealing with Vetri--don't expect good etiquette if you decide to collaborate with him.