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  1. Originally posted by JuJuman:[...]
    I for one am happy to be heavily taxed here in Austria - much more than I was in the UK. As a result, I and my fellow citizens can rely on several excellent public services, support for families, and so on. I actually would not accept a tax break - I believe in redistribution and progressive taxation.

    [...] I think that in the UK, and especially in the US, folks on lower incomes would really disagree with you here.
    Agreed, tax is a contribution to society has a whole and, as such, in everybody's best interest. And I think it is safe to say that some countries have a more fair and just distribution of wealth than others - of course, what is "fair and just" is ultimately a political discussion, so let's leave that aside.

    But what I was trying to argue for is that the principle of supply and demand - call it capitalism if you like - is a global principle. It maybe clear cut when all your dealings and earnings are in one country, but it's different for so-called multinationals. And the same goes for people like Bono or these mega sports stars; all have earnings in multiple countries. And they invest in multiple countries.

    Perhaps it would be more fair and just when each earning is taxed in the country the earning is generated, but it's easy to see that in most cases it is almost impossible to see what has been generated where. Take as a simple example U2's latest iTunes/Spotify release: the product is not only made by four Irishman but sold all over the world. And so thousands of examples could be made (Apple, Google, you name them!)

    Of course it is fair to say that not everyone benefits from this global economy, and I honestly think we could and should do so much better - if only to keep our planet habitable for future generations - but what is the alternative? A global tax system can only be enforced by a global political system. Are we ready for that? ("Imagine all the people...")
  2. Originally posted by u2_michaelc:[..]
    hate to say it, but you are most likely right.
    everybody has an hidden agenda..Larry even said once, "I don't like Bono meeting with war crims"


    I don't see the correlation between the two. I'm with Larry on that, I didn't particularly like the fact that Bono praised Tony Blair to the hilt. However, I don't see the link between meeting a head of state which is obviously a very public affair and his personal tax investments which, naturally, should be and (9 times out of 10) are a very private affair.

    I highly doubt as well that Bono has given the green light for those advisors/accountants to avoid paying Taxes. If anything it's poor fiscal advisors and advice from said advisors.
  3. Originally posted by bazzzz:after the jt tour ,now one of the worst moment of the band: new tracks, subscriptions, vouchers, taxes, trash exhibitions show and so on. Hope the 1st december will everything finish with some good songs and a great tour in europe. That's what i dream and want from u2, that's all
    I guess it's also a matter of perspective

    Great new tracks, an AWESOME fan club with a $40,- membership fee as long as I can remember (I don't think u2.com has ever raised the contribution in their 17 years of existence!) with annually great gifts (apart, perhaps, from those smelly litho's - which once framed don't even look so bad on a wall ) and a 25% discount voucher for awesome nice merchandise... And did I already mention the presale codes? EVERY tour since Vertigo u2.com subscribers have had no sweat obtaining tickets for 1 or 2 shows!

    Now you can say a lot, but saying that the u2.com subscription is part of U2's worst moments is really, really silly!
  4. Daily Mail going for Bono big time today....don't see them getting wound up about Lord Ashcroft an actual Englishman.
  5. It's daily mail. Do you expect anything less from that rag of a paper?
  6. Originally posted by BigGiRL:[..]
    I guess it's also a matter of perspective

    Great new tracks, an AWESOME fan club with a $40,- membership fee as long as I can remember (I don't think u2.com has ever raised the contribution in their 17 years of existence!) with annually great gifts (apart, perhaps, from those smelly litho's - which once framed don't even look so bad on a wall ) and a 25% discount voucher for awesome nice merchandise... And did I already mention the presale codes? EVERY tour since Vertigo u2.com subscribers have had no sweat obtaining tickets for 1 or 2 shows!

    Now you can say a lot, but saying that the u2.com subscription is part of U2's worst moments is really, really silly!
    I guess it's also a matter of perspective
    -It's your opinion not mine, sorry

    Great new tracks,

    -de gustibus, fan since 1980 i heard many better tracks these are like boots, maybe except american soul and blackout (a little bit)


    an AWESOME fan club with a $40,- membership fee
    -i pay since 2004 50 dollars (and for three accounts, i have big family)


    as long as I can remember (I don't think u2.com has ever raised the contribution in their 17 years of existence!) with annually great gifts (apart, perhaps, from those smelly litho's - which once framed don't even look so bad on a wall )

    -exact i have all gifts but not lithos and still not the one of last year, really too much delayed


    and a 25% discount voucher for awesome nice merchandise... And did I already mention the presale codes? EVERY tour since Vertigo u2.com subscribers have had no sweat obtaining tickets for 1 or 2 shows!
    -for merchandise ok i bought a lot there at fanfire.com, in hard rock cafes and elsewhere, ok for presales, but in the past everything was much easier and more tickets available.


    Now you can say a lot, but saying that the u2.com subscription is part of U2's worst moments is really, really silly!
    -sorry i'm 57 years old ,i'm not silly, i wrote many reasons why the moments of the band are the worst, and i have forgotten all these exhibitions and awards (with Kygo oh my Godness and only with Bono and Adam ) like in Cannes, now in London etc etc.

    Bye
  7. No, mine was not an opinion; just a different perspective!

    OK, regarding the new songs (that they are great) it is my opinion, but regarding the u2.com subscription
    I pictured you a different perspective - whether you like it or not.
  8. Originally posted by BigGiRL:[..]
    Agreed, tax is a contribution to society has a whole and, as such, in everybody's best interest. And I think it is safe to say that some countries have a more fair and just distribution of wealth than others - of course, what is "fair and just" is ultimately a political discussion, so let's leave that aside.

    But what I was trying to argue for is that the principle of supply and demand - call it capitalism if you like - is a global principle. It maybe clear cut when all your dealings and earnings are in one country, but it's different for so-called multinationals. And the same goes for people like Bono or these mega sports stars; all have earnings in multiple countries. And they invest in multiple countries.

    Perhaps it would be more fair and just when each earning is taxed in the country the earning is generated, but it's easy to see that in most cases it is almost impossible to see what has been generated where. Take as a simple example U2's latest iTunes/Spotify release: the product is not only made by four Irishman but sold all over the world. And so thousands of examples could be made (Apple, Google, you name them!)

    Of course it is fair to say that not everyone benefits from this global economy, and I honestly think we could and should do so much better - if only to keep our planet habitable for future generations - but what is the alternative? A global tax system can only be enforced by a global political system. Are we ready for that? ("Imagine all the people...")
    I agree on all counts. Yes, we face global challenges (such as, indeed, that of preserving the planet for future generations, raising inequality etc.), and we would need a global governance in order to address those challenges. Now we can dream!

    In the meanwhile, national governments are less and less able to meet those challenges; whence (in large part, I think) the recent raise of populism. Not looking so good... If the current trend continues 10 or 20 years from now, it'll be president Camacho in the best of cases ;-)

  9. Originally posted by Anam:[..]
    Very well said. If these were my tax affairs in the paper I would be very upset. There is only a public interest if something illegal has been done. Any moral 'grey areas' are up to legislators to fix. I would not pay a single penny more in tax than I could get away with.

    I'm sure the public crusaders at the guardian, the Mail and driving taxis around Dublin have different ideas.

    If Bono breaks the law, I'll be there on the barricades, until then U2vTax is the most boring topic, a peg for people to hang their petty begrudgeries on.

    The real losses to the treasury are from Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Sarbucks et al in the UK. In Ireland people should look at why the banks arr still f@#$ing people over, despite the fact the people now own them.
    Not sure that the Guardian and the Mail are really comparable in that way - anyway this bullshit really annoys me, Bono has a minority stake in some crappy mall in Lithuania that might have some dodgy practises (doesn't every business?), and people are making it out to be on the same level as the politicians who keep their entire wealth offshore to pay zero tax - get over it

    EDIT
    - Meaning get over Bono's tenuous link to this and look at the people buying jets and not paying tax on them etc
  10. Originally posted by BigGiRL:[..]
    I guess it's also a matter of perspective

    Great new tracks, an AWESOME fan club with a $40,- membership fee as long as I can remember (I don't think u2.com has ever raised the contribution in their 17 years of existence!) with annually great gifts (apart, perhaps, from those smelly litho's - which once framed don't even look so bad on a wall ) and a 25% discount voucher for awesome nice merchandise... And did I already mention the presale codes? EVERY tour since Vertigo u2.com subscribers have had no sweat obtaining tickets for 1 or 2 shows!

    Now you can say a lot, but saying that the u2.com subscription is part of U2's worst moments is really, really silly!
    +1
  11. I will not be defending any type of tax avoidance, etc. and I certainly am not a fan of the way the band and Bono handle their taxes, on ethical and moral grounds - even though at the end of the day it's all legal and it is their money...

    But - on this particular headline - I really think it was an attempt by whoever wrote the original Guardian article to just get clicks/reads.
    It was Sunday and the Guardian kept sending notifications (at least on my phone) as they were reading through the paradise docs. I imagine it as the documents divided between a team of people who have been asked to identify any public figure names in the document and post an article about each on the website...
    Once you read the full article, you see that it's not that big a deal - 1. it was legal anyway, 2. it's not even Bono as in one sneaky person doing this...it's his minority shares, passive role in a company that invested in another company which avoided some tax, etc.

    I don't find this to be of such importance. The whole Netherlands thing was and is a much bigger deal in my opinion
  12. Originally posted by WideAwakeBadBoy:[..]
    Not sure that the Guardian and the Mail are really comparable in that way - anyway this bullshit really annoys me, Bono has a minority stake in some crappy mall in Lithuania that might have some dodgy practises (doesn't every business?), and people are making it out to be on the same level as the politicians who keep their entire wealth offshore to pay zero tax - get over it

    EDIT
    - Meaning get over Bono's tenuous link to this and look at the people buying jets and not paying tax on them etc
    I'm not really comparing them as publications on the grounds that I buy one daily and wouldn't wipe my behind with the other! I respect the Guardian's investigative journalism and their radical streak, but for them the Paradise Papers leak is a big deal in terms of publicity. I thought the innuendo around Bono and the Queen were cheap shots when there is actual criminality elsewhere. I suspect the real crooks remain well hidden.