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  1. Originally posted by u2wanderer1:[..]
    They have customers being quite loud in their dissatisfaction right now. I agree I f they had a finalized track list it makes no sense to hold it back. Im guessing either they don’t know what it is yet (haven’t been told) or it hasn’t been finalized yet (final gift not approved yet). But others say they have it and just don’t care. And because of a lack of information about it, none of us know what’s actually going on with it.
    I hope they show that at least and soon, I repeat, that is very strange
  2. In 2017 we didn’t have the track list at this point yet either. Because the gift wasn’t final and no one knew what would be on it at this point. They hadn’t even picked the tracks that would be on it at this point in the year. We know that for a fact because they hadn’t even done some of the performances on those discs yet. And they could have easily picked from earlier performances on that tour. They played those same songs every night.
  3. Originally posted by u2wanderer1:[..]
    “ My point is very simple, 7 months after announcing the subscription gift it should already be in our hands.”

    If they told us each year the gift would be out before December 31 of the subscription year, we’d be celebrating when it arrives early. Instead by not saying some of us think it arrives early, others think it arrives late. And in all reality neither of us knows what standards they are using. A little communication might help out in a big way.

    “ I don’t care what they’ve done in previous years either.”

    Really? Because you are also saying, “They’ve proved they can get it done earlier.” Like me, you are basing some of your expectations on what they’ve done in previous years. Because they’ve done it earlier before you think it should be earlier now. I don’t. Because they’ve quite often been late in the year, and only once apologized my expectations are it will be out before the end of the year.

    “When you sell something to people it’s your job to meet their standards it’s not our job to settle for their standards.”

    That’s ridiculous. If I want a button fly pair of jeans I don’t expect every jeans company out there to offer a pair because that’s my standard. I don’t expect a coffee shop to serve a range of teas because that’s what I expect a coffee shop should offer. If U2.com were working to my standards they wouldn’t be offering this as a gift at all. We’d have a full show from some concert that hasn’t been released, or better yet a collection of previously unreleased studio material. They’ve proven they can do both. You are holding them to your standard, one they’ve never once suggested they would meet to my knowledge, and one they’ve quite often proved they won’t meet.

    “I don’t know what can possibly make you happy about it at this stage but that’s up to you.”

    Honestly not that happy about this gift. The contents leave me bored. I think it could be better. And I wish it was something different. I’ll likely listen to it once through and then just listen to it when they play tracks from it on U2 X-Radio. I’m also cranky that they originally announced a double disc and then cut it back to one. Also annoyed they are celebrating Achtung Baby’s 30th anniversary 31 years later. Not my favourite album.

    I hope with the extra time they are doing something extra special with it.

    “There’s nothing worse than complaining about something and being told in return to be patient or just accept the situation because ‘it is what it is’ essentially.”

    And there is nothing worse than presenting how you feel only to be told you are wrong, and you are lying to yourself if you believe that to be true. I’ve been involved with many conversations with you about this gift. You have told me multiple times I can’t honestly think the way that I do. But I do. And no amount of telling me I’m wrong is going to change my perspective here. We want very different things. We have very different views on when this is “due”.

    I’m not a fan of how U2Com is run. I have issues with their customer service, dealing with damaged items, items that never ship, shipping to wrong addresses, the technical issues, etc. I will 100% be happy if we get the gift before the end of the year. I’ve been beyond happy in the years it’s shown up in January or sometimes even before the year starts. But I’m not unhappy when it takes longer. I am happy it’s a gift that includes music this year and they aren’t just throwing together some posters that are still sitting in a tube unopened. I am happy it’s on CD, I do prefer that as a format, and I am happy they seem to be offering downloads as a standard now.


    I wouldn’t be celebrating if they said it would be with us before December 31st, I’d be thinking why are they charging us £30 now and taking a year to get a cd to us when it can be done much quicker. My expectation is nothing to do with what they’ve done in the past, I simply pointed out that they’ve managed to get it to us earlier, that isn’t what sets my expectation level it’s more to point out to people making excuses for them that the excuses aren’t valid, it can be ready earlier by fact not just opinion. I still base my expectation on what i see as a reasonable time not on what they’ve done in the past.

    How is that ridiculous? Any business when they provide a service or product have to be able to stand by what they offer. If someone goes into a clothes shop for a pair of jeans they want and the options aren’t satisfactory then people won’t be positive about their experience with that place. If someone goes into a coffee shop and the range isn’t what they’re used to, again I can’t imagine they’d be recommending the place. So I’m being far from ridiculous. As a customer I’ve been sold a cd for £30 and 7 months later I expect to have that cd. That’s my expectations as a customer and if they don’t meet that expectation then I’ll complain as it’s their job to satisfy their customers.

    Well to take your next two paragraphs together, my point was you couldn’t be happy about the situation with the gift just now. On the one hand you’ve just said yourself you aren’t happy with the gift. I specifically pointed out that whilst you might not be frustrated as myself or others you really had nothing to be happy about because they haven’t delivered anything, physically or otherwise. So that was my point. You might have different expectations, you might not be frustrated just now, but how could you possibly be happy with nothing? And you’ve just admitted yourself you aren’t happy. I guess your point is if the gift is with us before 31st December that is satisfactory customer service and that is the point I specifically disagree on. I guess I just have a much higher expectation of customer service, 7 months of silence for £30 and some customers are still content with that, it’s a dream scenario for live nation and u2.com having customers like that. I also don’t ‘hope with the extra time they are doing something extra special with it’ because regardless of how great it ends up being I believe it should have been that great and in our hands just now. They don’t need 7 months to deliver great. But if all that’s how you feel thats your own thoughts and feelings so fair enough. Maybe I’m wrong to question other fans expectations, I think I’ve done it largely in defence of my own thoughts when people have tried to give excuses for u2.com and down play my points. I don’t really accept any points in their defence or reasons for such a long wait.
  4. Originally posted by deanallison:[..]


    I wouldn’t be celebrating if they said it would be with us before December 31st, I’d be thinking why are they charging us £30 now and taking a year to get a cd to us when it can be done much quicker. My expectation is nothing to do with what they’ve done in the past, I simply pointed out that they’ve managed to get it to us earlier, that isn’t what sets my expectation level it’s more to point out to people making excuses for them that the excuses aren’t valid, it can be ready earlier by fact not just opinion. I still base my expectation on what i see as a reasonable time not on what they’ve done in the past.

    How is that ridiculous? Any business when they provide a service or product have to be able to stand by what they offer. If someone goes into a clothes shop for a pair of jeans they want and the options aren’t satisfactory then people won’t be positive about their experience with that place. If someone goes into a coffee shop and the range isn’t what they’re used to, again I can’t imagine they’d be recommending the place. So I’m being far from ridiculous. As a customer I’ve been sold a cd for £30 and 7 months later I expect to have that cd. That’s my expectations as a customer and if they don’t meet that expectation then I’ll complain as it’s their job to satisfy their customers.

    Well to take your next two paragraphs together, my point was you couldn’t be happy about the situation with the gift just now. On the one hand you’ve just said yourself you aren’t happy with the gift. I specifically pointed out that whilst you might not be frustrated as myself or others you really had nothing to be happy about because they haven’t delivered anything, physically or otherwise. So that was my point. You might have different expectations, you might not be frustrated just now, but how could you possibly be happy with nothing? And you’ve just admitted yourself you aren’t happy. I guess your point is if the gift is with us before 31st December that is satisfactory customer service and that is the point I specifically disagree on. I guess I just have a much higher expectation of customer service, 7 months of silence for £30 and some customers are still content with that, it’s a dream scenario for live nation and u2.com having customers like that. I also don’t ‘hope with the extra time they are doing something extra special with it’ because regardless of how great it ends up being I believe it should have been that great and in our hands just now. They don’t need 7 months to deliver great. But if all that’s how you feel thats your own thoughts and feelings so fair enough. Maybe I’m wrong to question other fans expectations, I think I’ve done it largely in defence of my own thoughts when people have tried to give excuses for u2.com and down play my points. I don’t really accept any points in their defence or reasons for such a long wait.
    I didn’t pay for a CD.

    I paid for a subscription. Which includes a gift at some point in the subscription year. I also get access to the site which is immediate. I get a 25% discount on merchandise which I can use immediately. I get an email address which I use, and I get access to Zootopia forums which I don’t really use. I also get first crack at tickets which I’ve used in the past, and sometimes have had good luck with and sometimes have not. So I’m already using aspects of what I paid for. And so far, I’ve gotten exactly what I’ve paid for each year I’ve subscribed. I know not everyone has, as there are reports of gifts not arriving every year.

    Yes the gift is a big perk. But it’s not like we haven’t gotten anything for our money at this point. And if there was a tour underway people would be falling over themselves and subscribing for tickets and saying the gift isn’t why they are subscribed at all.

    Is what we’ve gotten worth it? I’m a collector. I buy a lot of things from the store. The 25% off? Means I have to spend just $160 at the shop to get my subscription fee back. I usually manage to spend that in a year. If they didn’t offer the gift / tickets would I spend the $40 a year? No, not likely. I do appreciate the other aspects as well. Even if the gift this year isn’t one I’m looking for, I’ll find some enjoyment in it when it comes.
  5. Originally posted by u2wanderer1:[..]
    I didn’t pay for a CD.

    I paid for a subscription. Which includes a gift at some point in the subscription year. I also get access to the site which is immediate. I get a 25% discount on merchandise which I can use immediately. I get an email address which I use, and I get access to Zootopia forums which I don’t really use. I also get first crack at tickets which I’ve used in the past, and sometimes have had good luck with and sometimes have not. So I’m already using aspects of what I paid for. And so far, I’ve gotten exactly what I’ve paid for each year I’ve subscribed. I know not everyone has, as there are reports of gifts not arriving every year.

    Yes the gift is a big perk. But it’s not like we haven’t gotten anything for our money at this point. And if there was a tour underway people would be falling over themselves and subscribing for tickets and saying the gift isn’t why they are subscribed at all.

    Is what we’ve gotten worth it? I’m a collector. I buy a lot of things from the store. The 25% off? Means I have to spend just $160 at the shop to get my subscription fee back. I usually manage to spend that in a year. If they didn’t offer the gift / tickets would I spend the $40 a year? No, not likely. I do appreciate the other aspects as well. Even if the gift this year isn’t one I’m looking for, I’ll find some enjoyment in it when it comes.
    You can have a free membership and still have access to the site and zootopia so right away they’re both eliminated. The band haven’t been touring so pre sale goes out the window as well. Plus it doesn’t cost them anything to offer pre sale when they do tour so there is no actual value to that aspect it’s a free perk really and not one I factor into the cost of a subscription. I’m glad you bring up the point about what else u2.com offers though. As once again this is where they fail miserably. You spoke earlier about other types of business and what they offer in terms of meeting expectations. That’s where a small cafe for example that has a poor range of tea and coffee can make up for it by selling nice food. I could provide feedback saying well this is poor but they’re good at this. However with u2.com prior to the gift arriving there is literally no part of my subscription I enjoy and many fans feel the same way.

    That’s great you’re able to get a good discount from the shop. If it’s stuff you’re going to buy anyway fair enough that is some value for you. I suspect most of us aren’t interested in badges, lithographs, etc and you don’t get music as part of the discount which is laughable really but as I say genuinely if you’re buying a variety of u2 collectibles then yes it offers something to you still at no cost to u2.com, just less profit on the items but still profit. Hopefully they start catering to the fans that are only interested in the music throughout the year with full live song performance’s. I’d be able to put my frustrations about the cd to one side if they had threw a few previously unreleased downloads our way or made a few previously unreleased live videos available to watch on the site. So yeah the subscription is worthless to me aside from the cd at this point. It’s the main reason to subscribe and I know plenty others feel the same way hence the frustration at how it’s being handled.
  6. If the subscription is worthless to you then why do you subscribe? If it’s just the cd then buy it off eBay or Discogs when they come out. Usually for about three months after they start coming out, you can pick them up for less than the price of a subscription. Or right around the same price. There are fan run trading groups on Facebook to help people get them at a reasonable cost if they don’t want to subscribe.

    You don’t get full access to the site without a subscription. I cannot see my U2 Playlist without a subscription. There are other things I can’t view. You also have two levels of access at Zootopia. Paid members get access to more forums than non subscribers.

    No value to the presale tickets? Honestly most people count that as the number one reason to subscribe and to stay subscribed. Most people I’ve spoken to over the years could care less about the gifts. They are in it for the ticket access. And they maintain subscriptions in non-ticket years so they don’t lose the best tier of ticket access. So you can’t say it’s not part of peoples reasons for keeping subscriptions going.

    Again I try to point out things I do use about my subscription and that I do get value for and once again I’m told I’m wrong. And that others think I’m wrong. Well I’m telling you the same thing. Others find value in the membership beyond the gift. A good friend of mine has subscribed for years and sends me the gift each year because he finds it has zero value to him. He’s never listened to it once. But he’s happy with his subscription because it gets him things that he wants. Likewise I’m happy with my subscription because it gets me things I want which are different from what he enjoys.

    Because you don’t enjoy your subscription you want everyone to hate it as much as you do. And I’m sure there are many who do. And I’ve been quite honest there are aspects of it that drive me nuts with how they run the site and handle the merchandise side of things. But again, I’m not upset with the subscription aspect of it. Compared to other fan clubs I’ve been part of they actually get the stuff to me and in the time frame I expect. And I see far more value in what U2 has offered than other fan clubs over the years. So yeah easy for me to cheerlead sometimes, but I also have called out issues I’ve seen in the past. I just don’t see this as an issue. Not yet. If there’s still no sign of it in December and I’m looking at renewing again with no word on where my last gift is then there’s an issue. (And sitting through several years of BS from other fan clubs have left me with low tolerance there.)
  7. There is so much hate out there for the band at every corner. I won’t even post about the fan club going forward because yesterday and today I’ve been hit with so much BS it’s not funny. And the biggest complaint isn’t that the gift is “late”. No it’s “Bono pays taxes in the Netherlands so he should be able to ship the U2.com gift from there so I don’t have to pay duty” or complaints that it’s not on vinyl. Or complaints that someone hasn’t gotten the gift from three years ago. And we didn’t even post about the gift, we posted about the new pins. Something I was quite excited to see.

    It doesn’t matter what we post, we get sarcastic replies about how bad everything the band does is. We post about new material on streaming services and we get people moaning about the lack of CDs. We post about the anniversary of a show, and we get back how crap everything was for the last tour. We post about Funkos and we hear how environmentally unfriendly the band is now.

    And it’s constant. We have one poster who can be counted on to add to each post “this is shite where’s the new album?” Another can be counted on to complain about the lack of CDs anytime we post about any other format. If you don’t want to be updated on what we share, why continue to read?

    There is an overwhelming negativity in doing this right now. It’s mind numbing. It’s discouraging. It’s awful. And I do find that those who are still enjoying things are going into hiding because if you say anything positive you get more crap flung your way.
  8. Originally posted by deanallison:[..]
    The mods at zootopia are nothing short of a disgrace and quite frankly terrible people and I’m happy to have that on record. I don’t make posts personal usually but they deserve to be criticised on a personal level publicly


    After years of reading through this forum, I can’t believe that this is actually going to be my first post. Have you ever met me in person? I don’t think so. Do you know me personally? No. But I can say this, beyond my job as a moderator, I am a real human being with real feelings. A person who has been called “too nice” because I wear my heart on my sleeve even though I’ve been through things in life that I wouldn’t wish on anyone and I genuinely try to be nice to everyone. So I’m ok with someone criticizing the job I do; but calling me a terrible person is quite hurtful.

    To bring this back to topic. Do I wish we had the gift right now? Absolutely; because beyond being a moderator, I am a huge fan excited for the gift. But having been around since the days of Propaganda and never knowing when one of those issues might arrive, I think that my life is too short to worry about when it will arrive. But I do know one thing…they always do.
  9. Originally posted by u2wanderer1:There is so much hate out there for the band at every corner. I won’t even post about the fan club going forward because yesterday and today I’ve been hit with so much BS it’s not funny. And the biggest complaint isn’t that the gift is “late”. No it’s “Bono pays taxes in the Netherlands so he should be able to ship the U2.com gift from there so I don’t have to pay duty” or complaints that it’s not on vinyl. Or complaints that someone hasn’t gotten the gift from three years ago. And we didn’t even post about the gift, we posted about the new pins. Something I was quite excited to see.

    It doesn’t matter what we post, we get sarcastic replies about how bad everything the band does is. We post about new material on streaming services and we get people moaning about the lack of CDs. We post about the anniversary of a show, and we get back how crap everything was for the last tour. We post about Funkos and we hear how environmentally unfriendly the band is now.

    And it’s constant. We have one poster who can be counted on to add to each post “this is shite where’s the new album?” Another can be counted on to complain about the lack of CDs anytime we post about any other format. If you don’t want to be updated on what we share, why continue to read?

    There is an overwhelming negativity in doing this right now. It’s mind numbing. It’s discouraging. It’s awful. And I do find that those who are still enjoying things are going into hiding because if you say anything positive you get more crap flung your way.
    I usually stay away from this thread because I -like you've suggested plenty of times recently- am not a subscriber since a long time ago - simply because I don't like the way U2com handle all things subscription-related.

    But this last post of yours caught my attention. I guess you are talking about U2Songs' social media channels, right? It can be frustrating, no doubt. At least here in the forums we are more of a closed environment and we kinda "build" our characters through time and what we post is more or less in line with our previous history. But once you're posting a piece of news in Facebook, Twitter or Instagram you're out in the wild, and exposed to literally millions of people that are one click away from posting their bullshit. I've ran social media channels for both fansites and companies and it can be overwhelming and discouraging (either because your audience don't engage, or when they do, they throw negativity your way). In the end you have to focus on what you're doing and ignore the rest, because as you said, there's still many who are positive and open minded - and even if they just lurk in the hide, they're still there and we gotta care about them.

    Maybe a good alternative could be not even reading the comments to your posts. We as U2start don't interact with the comments on our Facebook posts anymore and life is easier now.

    Walk On and thanks for your fantastic work
  10. Originally posted by mich40u2:[..]


    After years of reading through this forum, I can’t believe that this is actually going to be my first post. Have you ever met me in person? I don’t think so. Do you know me personally? No. But I can say this, beyond my job as a moderator, I am a real human being with real feelings. A person who has been called “too nice” because I wear my heart on my sleeve even though I’ve been through things in life that I wouldn’t wish on anyone and I genuinely try to be nice to everyone. So I’m ok with someone criticizing the job I do; but calling me a terrible person is quite hurtful.

    To bring this back to topic. Do I wish we had the gift right now? Absolutely; because beyond being a moderator, I am a huge fan excited for the gift. But having been around since the days of Propaganda and never knowing when one of those issues might arrive, I think that my life is too short to worry about when it will arrive. But I do know one thing…they always do.
    We had a few respectful conversations via PM when I used to be allowed on zootopia and it all turned pear shaped because mods at zootopia (yourself included) didn’t like favouritism being pointed out to you. You showed a really bad side to you when you allowed user Manohlive to call fans names without any response whatsoever, the proof is in the forum’s, but then as soon as I said the same thing to deliberately make a point you felt the need to say ‘this needs to stop’ so yes as well as questioning how you do things as a moderator I think that brings into question the type of character you are. You are part of a team that has had me banned and called abusive when I simply pointed out I thought you were all doing a terrible job as mods. Go back and look at my comments and PM’s and you’ll see it was purely about how the job was being done and this was labelled ‘abusive’ which I won’t let lie. I’ve been more personal on here since because it has became personal, you and the other moderators over there have made it personal and until the ban is removed i will continue to talk badly about all of you wherever and whenever I can. I strongly dislike you and the other moderators at this point. I’d like you to share publicly where on zootopia I was abusive, I’d like you to share how I was warned in the first place for merely pointing out facts, you are all living in fairytale land on zootopia where piracy doesn’t exist. Where you can’t point out that it does exist, literally that is what I got my first warning for, spamming was added in yet other users spam regularly, mainly because there is nothing new to talk about, complaining is the only thing we can do because of no news and a poor service. So I don’t have even a bit of sympathy for you or the other mods at zootopia and I honestly hope one day the shoe is on the other foot and you are treated the same way you’ve treat me at zootopia.
  11. Jeez. The PJ membership gifts were 2-3 years late and they stopped doing it after. I don’t know exactly why but I have a feeling it’s because of the ridiculous negativity surrounding the production of these gifts. Funny and sad coming here and reading some of these comments.
  12. Originally posted by deanallison:[..]
    Because I want the gift and subscribing is the cheapest way to get it. I like the end result a lot, I don’t like how they get to the end result and as a paying customer I’ll continue to complain until they get it right. Just because the end result is good doesn’t make the getting there part acceptable.
    Maybe ask some of the lunatics on the PJ board what lawyer they contacted regarding they’re late membership gifts. I’m serious too.